Last Friday evening, we reported that the cartel had apparently dumped 102.5 million ounces of paper silver in a span of 7 minutes during late afternoon Globex trading- per volume/ candlestick action on the NetDania platform.
With reports swirling around the web early in the week that the CFTC had contacted NetDania regarding the matter, 4 days after our inquiry, we have finally received a response from NetDania regarding the apparent failed cartel raid.
In regards to the trading action last Friday in a 7 minute time-span around 14:50 EST, Net Dania responded:
Thank you for contacting NetDania Technical Support.
Please note that the numbers represent the trading volume from some of the top 5 liquidity providers and cannot be used as a guide line for the total market volume, which is unknown. It gives though some indication of the ongoing market activity.
Regarding the strange behavior of the volume, please note that our data provider encountered an issue in that period, therefore we received bad volume for a short period of time. We are aware of this issue and are working together with the data provider in finding a solution.
Please do not hesitate to contact us in case you have further questions or suggestions.
Kind Regards,
Izabela Mindak | Helpdesk Executive
NetDania SRL
84, Carol I Bvd, 1st floor
Craiova, RO-200061
Fax: +40 351 464854
www.netdania.com
izabela.mindak@netdania.net
Essentially, NetDania has responded that they RECEIVED BAD VOLUME DATA FROM THEIR TOP 5 LIQUIDITY PROVIDERS.
We'll leave this issue up to SD's readers to decide whether NetDania's response should be viewed with the same integrity as their charts.
60 comments:
well ill be..
now stfu ILUVPMS
- runlevel
you received a response 4 days later because the CFTC told them to reply it was a data error! we know what we saw!
You got it anonymous. If it was an error on their part, that huge of an error they would have come out quickly and cleared it up. Instead they waited to be contacted. Not professional at all. This stinks and I don't buy it.
T
Doc
Regardless of the response from net D
Thanks for the follow up.
Vindication os Goooood!
Crazy canuck
Thank You Mr SD, good work!
The crooks know we are watching them
I saw this story on about every pm blog i follow. Theres no doubt jp could have deployed damage control. Not sure what to think. Ill just honor netdanias information and pocket this data in my memory bank to come back to at a later date.
Is this data supplied individually or en masse from the 5 liguidity providers? It would seem to me that if individually supplied, the odds of all of them being simultaneously incorrect would be amazingly remote.
Funny, I have no data issues with my "physical accounts". I don't even need electricity for them to work properly! Ha ha!
Oldfordtrk1
I don't know if you got my post that I decided to take your advice, cashing in a part of my IRA
I took out a good chunk and bought some silver at $33 per oz. The taxes were much less that I thought and had I known they were as low as my CPA estimated, I would have done it in 2011 as well. Oh well
I'll do it again in 2013 since I pretty much maxxed our the withdrawal without increasing tax rate to high levels. Thanks for the advice.
Good stuff Doc. Thanks for posting.
NetDania statement is BS. They have a news section. I could not find any news stating the "malfunction." This should have been a priority to ensure their credibility among traders around the world. Instead they let it fester in the minds of traders as a true fact and affect prices and strategies. Are the Danish owners in tune with JPM, HSBC and others? If not so, then where is their outrage and public apologies for misinformation? Thanks to the Doc's excellent reporting we are finding out about it.
This is the text of my email to Isabela Mindak of NetDania.
Outrageously wrong silver trading information published by NetDania
I am writing in regards to the trading action last Friday in a 7 minute time-span around 14:50 EST and your answer to SilverDoctors addressing the issue. The silver traders and readers of silverdoctors.com are not satisfied with your answer and expect you to put and advisory on your web site's news section of what exactly happened giving detailed names and amounts.
Your misinformation affected negatively the strategic decisions and price of silver among traders and investors.
I f we don't see any further action on your part we, silver traders, will let investors know through several web sites mentioning you personally by name and NetDania's Danish owners.
Lonerangersilver
I am pretty sure that I am going to have to cal B.S. on that answer.
Nice letter, Lonerangersilver.
Nice try, Netdania, CFTC.
That's not actually what they said. They said "the numbers represent the trading volume from some of the top 5 liquidity providers "
That doesn't have to be the same place they get their data from. That source could have given them bad data. Doesn't it explain why silver didn't crash? Meaning that there was no real attempted take down, just bad data received.
YO
Amazing that even with an explanation you fucking morons still cling to a conspiracy theory. Give it up.. it was a malfunction that many stated before. The doc fucked up and made a mistake and now you guys are conspirying again. Bunch of losers.
JB Canada
I dont really care. I published it on my blog and in some boards. It was relevant at the time, but equally relevant were the long term charts, showing the LT move UP. Whatever the event, whatever the reason, tis too late for naysayers, and no one else is saying a peep about it so as to NOT call attention to it, SO I will call it good and let it be.
Good Job Doc's
http://www.denaliguidesummit.blogspot.com/
I thought JB Canada left us after his vitriol filled rant about why we should attack Iran? Are you back because of The Doc's post today about Iran accepting gold now?
How exactly did The Doc f* up by posting that info? Even if it was a data error, I believe that would be NetDania F*ing up, not the Doc. Nice try JB.
You need help JB from Canada. I don't know what the going rate for a therapist/mental evaluation is up there but it shouldn't set you back to much since you have universal health care. If this pisses you off that much I can't imagine your reaction to real life events. I'll say a prayer for you numb nuts.
T
JB Canada is a retard........just ignore him since he has a pea brain......
Hahaha
JB Canada.........go home to Mama
People... In a week we will know the answer. Think about it. 100 Million ounces is going to be 20,000 contracts. If we see a big jump in the Open Interest that corresponds to 20,000 contracts we will know Net Dania is lying.
Thanks Doc....great work.
JB Canada reveals incredible ignorance of the silver market and a profound lack of sophistication with respect to the fact that manipulation does occur, and is not in the least theory, but documented fact supported by a literal mountain of evidence that he will never consider in his lame analysis of the whole situation.
Silver appears to be making huge progress when Wall Street is awake and Asia sleeps these past few weeks. What's up, Doc?
Instantaneous, automated, live data does not lie. Vague, belaboured, back-peddling explanations do.
JB in Canadia. NO way. There can't be two of the worlds greatest numb nuts hailing from the same continent.
Is that you Hamy, of ZH fame? If not, Hamy is a Canadian too. You must have something contaminating the water up there, ay?
You people are all just dumber than abox of hammers.
Conspericy tards you are, you'll see
If the Data is that far off, what good is it?
I can see some level of discrepancy, but that was very unusual.
Who knows what happened and if only one strange thing had occurred it could be dismissed, but how many times has odd things occurred?
go blow a donkey jb....
Nice work DOC!
Who is Net Dania's " Provider" ?
What was the issue they encountered?
Why did NetDania take 4 days to respond? (Even two if you don't count the weekend)
This reply is vary vage and slow in coming. For me it just fules even more lack of credibility in there respons.
New B
Ya It's Bull $hit And Silver Spot jumped $1.50 + since
These stink fights are getting ridiculous.
For those of you who trash this site or think it's ok to demean anyone who opines on the site, I suggest that you use at least one litmus test to get an understanding of the value and thoughtfulness of this site.
Eric Sprott not only took a considerable amount of time to interview with Doc but he also reads this site daily. I seriously doubt if Sprott would study this site if it did not present value to him. Sprott is a billionaire and a silver speaker of the first order. He did not get there by being a DA.
I'm quite sure that his ability to acquire silver and create value in his funds is a testiment to his financial awareness. That he considers this a valuable site tells me that Doc is on the right path and this site presents real worth to those who plumb its depths. This blog is not intended to demean anyone. It's just my vent expressing frustration in the tone of the site that evidences itself when varying opinions are flogged. IMO
Well said AGXIIK!
Now that I know Sprott reads Doc's site, I often finding myself shuddering at some of the comments wondering what someone at his level must think. Any time someone like that wants to take the time to speak, I'll gladly take the time to listen!
Silverstax
Hunkered_Down, you do not have to wait until the COT comes out late this week to know the answer. The information for last Friday is in the CME Daily Bulletin: http://www.cmegroup.com/daily_bulletin/Section62_Metals_Futures_Products_2012037.pdf These reports come out daily about 24 hours behind so all the data is in. The event of dumping that many ounces simply did not happen, as far as being an Open Interest item...
AGXIIK, excellently stated. it's usually inevitable in sites like this. if they're good they attract the trolls and the disinfo people. I suggested starting by making it so that anonymous (i.e. non-blogger) folks couldn't post, since it seems that most of the immature rants come from those who are identity-less.
This is why i spent all of 3 days at that other site that gets pejoratively mentioned here at times. But it's getting very bad here Doc. Please do something (not sure if you're considering an option for this at your new site). thanks.
I drink to that!
Definitely should not allow anonymous people to post! I drink to that also!
Dear Izabela Mindak
Warning------PLAY FAIR OR NOT AT ALL
********WE ARE LEGION********
WE DO NOT FORGIVE************
*************WE DO NOT FORGET
Mr. Diamond's trolls here again...geez you trolls never quit do ya
The new website will bring in an extensive list of tools at our disposal when it comes to comment section and user moderation. We prefer to give everyone the chance to voice their opinion, so even on the new site, we will use the new tools relatively sparingly.
It's Dimon...
well, no. obviously they got it wrong in the first place, other services didn't show such nonsense. and people here choose to insist they had an impossible volume right all along! moreover, after a day it was apparent it was in error, for that same reason that other services did not show any such aberration, and brotherjohnf was silent about it ... not inserting any sort of note "the following video was recorded before the netandia data was seen as erroneous." such a disservice, brotherjohnf and silverdocs only further such discombobulation is: "We'll leave this issue up to SD's readers to decide whether NetDania's response should be viewed with the same integrity as their charts."
I only have one higher power and it's not sprott or aggix, it's God. I'm not going to change the way I think or comments I leave because someone "important" reads this blog. That's childish and shows you to be star struck. I live in reality and reality tells me sprott wouldn't want us to change on his account. He's read this blog before he was interviewed and probably saw worse stuff and he still respected Doc enough to do an interview. If a flamer comes onto this site disrespecting my views and calling me and others a loser I will try to be nice but I will speak my mind. If you think you're above Doc's site getting disrespected and it doesn't bother you then good for you, but not me.
T
This site is full of a bunch of fucking bafoons.. even when a statement is given the conspiracy theories still about.. not a simple explanation ... what a bunch of loser.
Last comment I'm leaving on this article. What anyone thinks of me is none of my business. We would be bafoons if we didn't believe the manipulation was real. Silver investors deal on a daily basis with powerful people committing treacherous crimes in broad daylight in the silver market. In most sane countries these acts would get them doing a long stint in prison or worse. This has been going on for years. We were told the cftc will fix it and has new laws to deal with it. Then every chance they get they delay, delay, delay and eventually enough time passes and it goes away. What dodd frank bill? We see the banks massively shorting unbacked paper. We feel great seeing the price rise from $26 to $49.80 only to watch the price drop over six dollars in a couple minutes when most markets were closed. Then the cme raises margins five times in a few weeks even as the price is dropping hard. Silver investors have been lied to over and over again, it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories it has everything to do with lack of trust.
T
Still reading these comments. Hard to tell which anonymous is which!
When we are talking about silver manipulation, it is important to quantify what manipulation and by whom.
Most of the letter writers cry foul when they see the Commercial Banks big short position. I have examined this thoroughly and am hard pressed to believe that is the true manipulation.
If anyone knows of an article that explains it very well, please post it. I have read much from my friend Ted Butler and have never read anything definitive that proves a large short position is the culprit.
After examining all the data, I think the manipulation is otherwise.
Must be the same data provider that is behind the MF Global evaporated funds. Why is it that the pendulum always rocks back to the JP. I'll gladly dance on its grave when it tanks. Unfortunately, it won't be the silver bullet that takes out the JP, it will be the huge leveraged derivatives and credit default swap fiasco. The good people of Greece should give the global bank cartel the middle finger and refuse any bailout, outright and not grab onto the anchor being thrown to them by the leaches. The price of silver would reverse as investors (rats on the ship) flee from the Lucitania only to board onto the safety of the almighty dollar (Titanic). But the defaults due to the hypothecation and rehypothecation, and the various credit default swaps would bury greed mongering hedge funds and expose the umpteen other MF Globoal (mofos) out there. The run would then be to the precious metals, to bad for the paper hogs at the ETFs, who'll have to settle for pennies on the dollar and line up at their own default window. Greece you are on the clock, make Leonides proud.
I am rather pleased to see that Doc. did report this data the way that he did. I am sure he is conscious of the fact that if his conclusions are wrong that he will be jumped on or crucified for the error in short order. However, don't forget his title "the Doc." Just maybe he looks on this board like a medical or science journal. How do you think science progresses? It is through investigation and then the publication of that new information in specialized journals for peer review. Once it is posted, it's dissected by the members of that community to see if it will stand up as a new truth. I am indebted to him for the scope of his efforts to help enlighten me.
My process of intelligence gathering is to collect as much info. as possible, true or false. Then I continue to add and cross reference any new information that fleshes out previous topics of interest. Eventually, I begin to see certain patterns develop and over time certain of these are confirmed as solid and valid. This way, you conserve time by learning to trust certain sources of news.
I would hate to lose the use of this website, for the doc struggles to bring as much information as his time permits. Like a general, our goal should be to collect all incoming information, then dissect and digest it. Finally, act upon it.
Get Anonymous involved for real answers. Anyone know how to make contact? lol
No, it is the data reported by the weekly COTs and from the CME Daily Bulletin. Other than inventory that is all the data we get to see. The Daily Bulletin shows volume and general Open Interest data for that day so you know when Open Interest moved but you do not know who moved it.
I'll use last Friday as a basis since that was what was discussed in the above article. The overall volume in the most active month, that day, was about 50,000 contracts. The Open Interest volume in the most active month (which determines price) was down 1233 contracts.
Now how can 2% of the volume (Open Interest) control the other 98% of total volume for that most active month. And remember, the OI for that day was down 1233 contracts, not up.
ozark, after reading 1984 15 years ago, that's how I roll as well. i've got a database of some 15 years now and it's a great strategy. it can take years to start to see certain patterns on certain topics, but you can see what social meme each one tends to take after a while.
I post as Anonymous for a reason and I like it that way. I do think the DOC should make it a requirement to actually sign up for his and Bull's site and be able to use "tools" to defend the site and block anyone that is constantly an idiot. Everyone has to rant once in a while. Remember though, without the bad, there can be no good. Both sides bring out the best and well rounded thoughts. The best thing to do with the trolls, shills and JB's is to give them a nipple to suckle, pat em' on the hind parts and send them home to mamma.
JB is still pissed because he's been proved wrong and ignoring him may be the best medicine.
Stack while you can,
2 OZ.
Ozark, I must disagree with you on how the information was presented.
I will not fault the Doc for drawing the wrong conclusions. As you say, we learn from each other and I didn't mind the fact that the original post was simply plain wrong.
The problem is with spreading information once you know it to be wrong. Many people used information found on this site to affect their PM trading decisions.
Notwithstanding the fact that the Netdania feed showed berserk volume (for whatever reason), it became abundantly clear very early on on that the Netdania volume does not display futures price nor volume. It was also discussed on Turd's site last year with the same canned response from Netdania.
The first point I want to make is that this post started off as simply being wrong due to false presumptions which is fine however it escalated to the site being a provider of false information once it became abundantly clear that the content was in fact obviously wrong and no attempt to update the post was done by the author to benefit the readership who used the bad information in their trading decisions.
The second point has to do with the effect of the above. Those with obviously more PM knowledge who visited this site thereafter to set the record straight were flamed by idiots wanting to be right. Do you think they will revisit this site? My guess is many will not. I've lost a lot of respect for this site as a result so I'll not be back here too often although I know more about PM's than a fair chunk of people here based on comments I've read. In going I'll expect to be flamed by retards as is often the case here it appears.
The problem with misinformation is the effect on followers who don't know any better. I can't even begin to believe some here are even still expecting to see Netdania's volume found on this week's COT reports or are claiming Netdania's response is BS (and therefor the original post must be what happened!). This is pure insanity and just goes to show you the effect of misinformation.
I appreciate that Doc finally posted a response however too little too late...
Fat fingers!
2oz, i'm not suggesting as a solution that people have to disclose identifying information. just sign up for a blogger account. then that will make it more of a pain in the ass for all the trolls. moreover, doc can get rid of them. few if any of us serious people here want to stifle critical thinking or even rants (as unproductive as they are for everyone involved). I just want more transparency and to rid of some of these poor-weather trolls. if not, at some point, i'll probably give the site up, as there are too many other sites w/out the noise. as someone above said the signal to noise ratio is pretty high here, but it's been dropping like a 10am Leap Day raid on silver.
The noise has picked up recently, as Doc's site is top notch. When I first came here, folks were helping and explaining what was happening in the markets. Hell, Doc himself would offer his help.
I believe it's a sign of Doc's sucess.
NEWB
I still attempt to offer my help and thoughts as much as possible NewB...gets a little overwhelming sometimes with 200-300 emails a day now.
Sorry Doc. I re-read my post it didn't sound at all what I meant.
"a sign of Doc's success"...I meant that folks will try to tear down something that is good in an effort to elevate themselves.
There still a great deal of help understanding terms and charts. Perhaps that could be another reason the "noise level" has increased, trolls don't like seeing people get educated...perhaps "they" feel you should have to pay/subscribe to get such valuable information.
I have "paid" for memberships that didn't pony up half the information I have gleaned here. Not to mention having my "newbie" questions answered.
Sorry Doc, that was my laziness and poor writing. I should have thought out my words more carefully.
Your doing an excellent job, and I wish you nothing but the very best. Honest!
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